out of bounds

[Wartank]

Last night I was playing in a 'rec' league, I was on defence, and an OI huck went down the line -- it was OB in the air but the disc was possibly curving back in-bounds. I chased it down and D'ed it while I was out of bounds.

The player I was covering, in a totally calm and cool way which i commend him on, informed me that as a defender I was not allowed to hit the disc when it was out of bounds, because I interfered with it's ability to get back in-bounds. He was polite but adamant that it was a rule, I was polite but adamant that it was not, we agreed to disagree and look up the rules later.

Turns out I'm right (IX.F. "The disc may fly outside a perimeter line and return to the playing field, and players may go out-of-bounds to make a play on the disc."), but while I was searching for the answer to email them with, I came across this curious line:

IX.E. A disc becomes out-of-bounds when it first contacts the out-of-bounds area, contacts an out-of-bounds offensive player, or is caught by an out-of-bounds defensive player.

....so... if an out of bounds defensive player hits the disc but doesn't catch it, the disc is not out of bounds and is still live??

[GwaiLo]

I would say yes. If you just hit it...it's not OB yet. It could go back IB...and legitimately be live. Or...if you hit it, and then it is contacted by the out-of-bounds area, or an out-of-bounds offensive player, THEN it's OB.

This makes sense, since it avoids Offensive players from running OB to mack the disc back in. Since it would be considered OB as soon as they touch it.

Personally, I think the rule SHOULD be the way the other guy described it though. I've always had an issue with this one. I don't think it's fair to be able to leave the playing field to make a play on a disc. But hey...I don't write the rules.

[lwswong]

I would say yes. If you just hit it...it's not OB yet. It could go back IB...and legitimately be live. Or...if you hit it, and then it is contacted by the out-of-bounds area, or an out-of-bounds offensive player, THEN it's OB.

This makes sense, since it avoids Offensive players from running OB to mack the disc back in. Since it would be considered OB as soon as they touch it.

Personally, I think the rule SHOULD be the way the other guy described it though. I've always had an issue with this one. I don't think it's fair to be able to leave the playing field to make a play on a disc. But hey...I don't write the rules.

And Darren knows a thing or two about playing in Rec leagues....

[GwaiLo]

And Darren knows a thing or two about playing in Rec leagues....

I hate you...

[Crunchy]

Yes Warren, so even if the disc is 30' out of bounds. If a defending player for some reason "D" it back over the field, it's still live!

I don't have time to dig into the rules right now, but I remember seeing something about "if it touches anything out of bounds (trees, spectators, etc.) it is out of bounds" Does it say anything about defensive player there?

[lwswong]

I don't have time to dig into the rules right now, but I remember seeing something about "if it touches anything out of bounds (trees, spectators, etc.) it is out of bounds" Does it say anything about defensive player there?

I've got time!!! Here it is:

IX.B.The out-of-bounds area consists of the ground which is not in-bounds and everything in contact (direct or indirect) with it except for players. Any non-players other than observers are considered part of the out-of-bounds area.

A bit of a tangent, but its possible the other player was confused by the rule about non-playing players touching the disc and not letting the disc come back into play. In that situation, this rule applies:

III.G.If play is obstructed by competitors, coaches, spectators or objects within five meters of the playing field, any obstructed player or thrower in possession may call this violation. Play resumes at the stall count reached plus one, or 9 if over 8.

[Wartank]

yeah, lwswong, it's possible. i dunno. i just know he was wrong. had no idea that the defender had to catch it though. i think that's weird and needlessly confusing. i guess the lesson is, catch it or d it really hard into a non-player on the sideline.

[atanarjuat]

Huh. I am honestly surprised that the defender clause would come as a surprise or that it would be unpopular. I had thought it was well known. I think it generally promotes the fun plays that make ultimate exciting, and it cuts down on the possible number of confusing stoppages.

As I see it, the playing field is just a rectangle in which the offense must catch the disc in order to maintain possession. Only the offense has to worry about the boundaries for their plays; the defenders can do just about anything to interfere. That's what makes the game so simple and fun. Imagine how much of a headache the following scenarios would be if the rule was different:

-Disc on the sideline. Defender puts on a straight-up mark, with one foot out-of-bounds (*I'll assume that is still legal) The disc brushes his arm as the throw goes off. The disc wobbles, but someone on offense rescues it; some people argue there should be a turnover, and other people are arguing that the marker shuffled at the last moment and that his foot wasn't really OB.

-Throw up the sideline. A defender lays out and tips the disc, but it flies back in-bounds before being caught. It's not clear whether he jumped from OB. If he was OB when he jumped, should the disc be considered OB? What if he claims he touched it, but the flight of the disc was unappreciably altered?

-Throw from the sideline toward the middle of the field. A defender who had stumbled over the sideline into the OB area realizes his chance and dives for the disc, brushing it. The throw was never even out-of-bounds before it was touched. Should it be considered OB, even if it's still catchable? Should you instead require that a defender have a foot on the sideline before he's allowed to jump?

[GregS]

III.G.If play is obstructed by competitors, coaches, spectators or objects within five meters of the playing field, any obstructed player or thrower in possession may call this violation. Play resumes at the stall count reached plus one, or 9 if over 8.

If I'm not mistaken, this must be called by the thrower before making a throw. You can't throw it into someone on the sideline and then complain that they were in the way.

[larrypmac]

Of course, Warren, if you knock the pass down and it hits the ground, it's now out of bounds there. But by the defensive player touching it, it's live there, so that's the last place where it was live. The defense turning offense team has to take the disc a the closest spot on the field proper, rather than where the disc went out of bounds.

Larry

[Wartank]

Yeah I suppose I did know this, Mr. Fast Runner does offer up some pretty important examples. Esp wrt to the marker who can stand whereever they want, etc.

I think I'm straight on all the rest.

Carry on, hope that was informative for some