New forum suggestion

[GregS]

As I get to know more and more TUC members, it has struck me that many are self-employed in areas that could benefit other TUC members. We've got lawyers, doctors, massage therapists, physiotherapists, programmers, IT people, financial advisors, tradespeople (carpenters, plumbers, electricians), and so on. (Hello to everyone who recognizes themselves as partial inspiration for this post.)

I know that I'd usually rather pay someone I know, or who I at least know embraces the spirit of Ultimate, instead of randomly choosing from the yellow pages. To better enable this kind of interaction among TUC members, I'd like to propose a new forum, where people could post regarding what goods or services they provide. It would be called something like "What Do People Do All Day". I'll even volunteer as a moderator. Posts like this could already potentially go in the Classified section, but I think it would be better to keep them separate, since the classifieds are typically of short-term interest while these would generally be open-ended.

We'd have to hash out what the restrictions would be. As a first cut, I'd say we require that all posters have their full name and a valid email address in their profile, and not allow follow-up messages from anyone but the original poster (or not at all).

I am not sure whether or not this should be limited to self-employed individuals. It seems reasonable that it be expanded to independent members of organizations, and probably to small companies as well. Then, what is the definition of "small"? It's my feeling that Microsoft and IBM and Ford and the like are big enough that they don't need this free advertising, but where is the cut-off? Hmm, maybe a requirement that there be some discount for TUC members, then big companies would not likely participate since it would be more bother than it's worth to get it organized?

Very interested to get people's feedback on whether this is a good idea, and what form it should take, before making an official recommendation to the powers that be.

[will mercer]

I'd be interested to read comments from people that oppose this.

[beachbum]

I think it's a great idea. The only thing I'd be wary of is non-TUC poachers. If there's a way to eliminate that factor, I'd say datsh a great idea!

[JohnyUtah]

Hi Greg,

I think it is a great idea. It is also good to have a professional resource for aspiring doctors, lawyers, teachers etc. We have several people that would be able to provide helpful suggestions for preparing applications and general information about their profession.

[GregS]

I'd be interested to read comments from people that oppose this.

Absolutely. If we hear what the concerns are then perhaps we can address them and make this something everyone can appreciate.

The only thing I'd be wary of is non-TUC poachers.

What if there was also a new user group that you had to join before you could post, and we make sure that users are registered TUC mmbers before allowing them to join?

[HotSauce]

There are two votes for Strongly Oppose. But no one has posted with reasons. Strange.

I think this is a good idea but would be a lot of work for the moderator. I like the idea of having to join a user group or at least confirm TUC membership before posting.

[lennox]

Even if the forum was dedicated to, not only advertising services, but asking for service (need a lawyer, need auto repair, etc.) that would be a very healthy way to network the club.

[slackerjack]

Even if the forum was dedicated to, not only advertising services, but asking for service (need a lawyer, need auto repair, etc.) that would be a very healthy way to network the club.

Not a bad idea. It's kind of analagous to "players looking for teams" and "teams looking for players".

Goods and Services on Offer?
Looking for Goods and Services?

Once you have enough posts in either thread, you could start breaking things down into categories (graphics design, law, accounting, etc.). This sort of thing could eventually evolve into a more official "TUC Marketplace".

A moderated forum with strict posting requirements (name, email, phone, etc.) would probably do the trick.

[Hanuman]

The forum would also be helpful for people to network with others in similiar fields... you'll have both your career and Ultimate in common I believe this relates to Rob's earlier post. Great Idea!

[GregS]

Even if the forum was dedicated to, not only advertising services, but asking for service (need a lawyer, need auto repair, etc.) that would be a very healthy way to network the club.

I had considered this possibility, but felt that asking for service is more of a short-term need and hence might fit better in the classifieds section. Also, this would likely necessitate removing the proposed "must join the user group before posting" restriction. What do others think?

If there was a help-wanted area (either my proposed forum or a parallel one), would replies of the form "I've always been treated well by XYZ company" be acceptable? This would make it a little more BBB-like and less TUC-networking-like, which has both ups and downs to it.

[Mortakai]

A few words against...

I *do* believe the concept is very valuable, but I think logisticly It would be quite a challenge to find a service you're looking for, once a lot of people have posted what they do. Remember that many people do not present 'good' subject lines (think of: "my service", or "what I do for a living") Now picture how easily you'll find someone who can alter clothes.

I think a forum is perfect for someone 'looking' for a service... then the replies would be suggestions for people in the community that provide that service or would know who. But I believe that the medium for those communicating what they do should be more structured to allow for easier finds for others looking.

Is it better than nothing? Absolutely. But I don't think I'd be inclined to use it... or I'd at least use it more if it was more like a 'yellow pages' structure.

... hence my "somewhat oppose" opinion.

[GregS]

A few words against...

Finally! Now we're getting somewhere...

I *do* believe the concept is very valuable, but I think logisticly It would be quite a challenge to find a service you're looking for, once a lot of people have posted what they do. Remember that many people do not present 'good' subject lines (think of: "my service", or "what I do for a living") Now picture how easily you'll find someone who can alter clothes.

Two ways of fixing this. First, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that forum moderators (remember, I've already volunteered to moderate) have the power to reject posts, so we could make a rule that subject lines must be descriptive. Second, it is in the best interest of the poster to make sure that they do everything they can to help people find them, and a good subject line would be a very important part of posts in this forum.

I think a forum is perfect for someone 'looking' for a service... then the replies would be suggestions for people in the community that provide that service or would know who.

Part of my inspiration for this came from a discussion with someone who provides a service I wasn't previously aware of. I would not have thought to post a "looking for" message. In other words, I see this not only as a place to advertise, but a place to educate so that people are aware of more options than they might otherwise be.

But I believe that the medium for those communicating what they do should be more structured to allow for easier finds for others looking.

I was trying to stay within the capabilities of the BB. If I understand you correctly, what you'd be looking for would require new software (which might or might not already exist, but either way would be a more significant investment of time than simply creating a new forum).

Hmm, I thought this BB software (as seen on other sites) included a search capability. Is that disabled here on purpose, or has it been customized on other sites? Being able to search the forum for "lawyer" or "auto repair" instead of having to manually scan the list of subjects might help.

[Mortakai]

Hmm, I thought this BB software (as seen on other sites) included a search capability. Is that disabled here on purpose, or has it been customized on other sites? Being able to search the forum for "lawyer" or "auto repair" instead of having to manually scan the list of subjects might help.

Oh, I was thinking of using the brower's find function, which would show hits in the subject lines. I hadn't even thought about the BB's search function... which DOES work... and quite well as a matter of fact. Searching on "lawyer auto" by post for only this forum pulled up your original message at the bottom and your reply just below this message.

Can I change my vote?

[GregS]

I hadn't even thought about the BB's search function... which DOES work... and quite well as a matter of fact.

Oops, I was looking in the wrong place for the search button. I'm used to it being down at the bottom, not at the top.

Can I change my vote?

I'm going to say no, and then someone else can point out that I'm once again wrong.

[GregS]

It appears that we've had about all the discussion we're going to on this topic, and there haven't been any new votes for a few days now, so it's time to summarize and make a "formal" proposal. Over 86% (including Mortakai's indication of wanting to change his vote) support the notion, compared to only 7% against (after removing Mortakai's original vote). Over 4% of the membership voted on this, which is about the same as we get for federal elections.

What follows is my proposal for a sticky first posting stating the rules of the forum. I'll email something to this effect to the Communications Chair as well as posting here. If approved, I expect it'll still take a couple of days to get everything in place, so suggestions for changes to these rules (and the name of the forum) are still welcome.



Many of us are employed in areas that could benefit other TUC members. This forum is intended to encourage networking, by providing a place where we can make our areas of expertise known. The following rules are not meant to be draconian, but rather to ensure that the forum is a useful resource to the broadest possible cross-section of the TUC membership.

Posts must describe goods or services which you provide, or a field in which you are knowledgeable and willing to assist others looking for information or recommendations. Other posts may be removed at the discretion of the moderator. If you are looking for assistance in an area not covered by an existing post here (use the Search function of the BBS to look for keywords), you should post in the Classified Ads forum instead.

Remember that your post will be the only thing that helps people to find you. Descriptive subject lines, thorough descriptions, and correct spelling and grammer are all important. Additional important terms that don't fit into the main body of your post might be added at the end in a separate block prefixed with "Keywords:" to help those using the Search function of the BBS to find you.

Before posting, you must join the What Do People Do All Day usergroup. You will only be allowed to join this group if you are a TUC member in good standing [Note: I'm assuming there is some way that the moderator could confirm this in a relatively short time.], and have your real name and a valid email address visible in your profile. Your membership may be revoked and any posts to this forum deleted by the moderator if these conditions don't remain true, or for abuses of the forum (such as deleting an old post and reposting the same information just to move to the top of the message list).

Once your membership in the usergroup has been confirmed, you will be allowed to post. In the interests of making the forum as useful as possible, we ask that you keep your number of posts to a minimum; one should suffice for most people.

Posts advertising the goods and services of large corporations are frowned upon (they can afford real advertising), and may be removed if there are numerous complaints to the moderator. A working definition of "large" will presumably be arrived at over time through group consensus, but for starters any multinational or publicly traded company is right out.

Follow-up posts are not allowed, so trying to start a discussion in this forum will be a pointless exercise. You are allowed to edit your posts, if information changes. You are encouraged (but not required) to provide a discount to TUC members.

[lennox]

Two things:

1) Scenario: If I were to be looking for a lawyer, would I post in the classifieds section as suggested? Or would I post a "Seeking:" topic? In this case, those who were offering services would post under "Offering:"? Just a suggestion to allow two way traffic in this "new" forum.

2) Should publicly traded companies be automatically restricted from posting? We are a publicly traded company, but only have about 35 people at head office and do not spend money on advertising. Also, what about people who could get us deals on Nike, Coke, Cinder Blocks, Victoria's Secret, etc.? Should they be restricted from the forum too?

Can't wait to see how the new forum works!

...Mark

[GregS]

If I were to be looking for a lawyer, would I post in the classifieds section as suggested? Or would I post a "Seeking:" topic? In this case, those who were offering services would post under "Offering:"? Just a suggestion to allow two way traffic in this "new" forum.

My concern is that allowing "Seeking" messages clutters things up somewhat. This is more of a concern with this forum than it would be in others, because here old posts don't become irrelevant or stale. Anything that gets in the way of efficiently finding what you are looking for makes the forum less useful. "Seeking" messages are inherently time-limited, plus many people might benefit from a publicly-posted reply (recall that replies are not permitted in the new forum), so the Classifieds seems a better fit.

Should publicly traded companies be automatically restricted from posting? We are a publicly traded company, but only have about 35 people at head office and do not spend money on advertising.

This is the issue that I'm having the most difficulty getting clear in my mind. Everyone here is aware of Coke and Microsoft and Gatorade and Tylenol and we don't need or want to read posts hyping them over Pepsi and Corel and Powerade and Excedrin. I think the key is to avoid commercialization; if anyone has a better suggestion of how to solve it, then please post!

Also, what about people who could get us deals on Nike, Coke, Cinder Blocks, Victoria's Secret, etc.? Should they be restricted from the forum too?

Judging from the very mixed reaction to the Tennis Canada ad, this may be a sensitive issue. My first thought is that if it benefits TUC members, then it's a good thing, but I'd love to hear other opinions.

[galenmidwinter]

You want my opinion? Alright... fasten your seat belts...

I figure that the new forum should allow posts from people who can get other TUC members *better than retail prices* on things/services.

Argument for this restriction: If we don't have this restriction than all we are doing is an Ultimate nepotism yellow pages, which I personally would never use (as I feel that if I need/am shopping for a good/service, I look for references from friends for the best in the market *or* I am looking for a great "deal").

This restriction also answers the "corporate" question as only people who can do something for the TUC membership (in monetary terms) is being allowed to post (ie. not just flagrant advertising).

My 2 cents.

[JohnyUtah]

So unless you have access to discount prices on Salon Selective products Galen doesn't want to hear from you.

[GregS]

I figure that the new forum should allow posts from people who can get other TUC members *better than retail prices* on things/services.

I thought about requiring a discount, but felt it might be a difficult thing to enforce. For example, I will certainly give TUC members my "preferred customer" rate, but that's still likely to be higher than some other people charge for similar (although lower quality!) services. Does that qualify as "better than retail price"? (Also, see my last point below.)

Argument for this restriction: If we don't have this restriction than all we are doing is an Ultimate nepotism yellow pages, which I personally would never use (as I feel that if I need/am shopping for a good/service, I look for references from friends for the best in the market *or* I am looking for a great "deal").

Who is the best plumber/accountant/massage therapist in Toronto? There are tons of them, and most will be quite adequate for any work I need done. I could ask a friend (if I had any ), I could pull out the yellow pages and pick randomly, or I could give the work to a fellow TUC member. Given the choice, I'd go with the third option. Nepotism is only bad for those on the outside (in this case, non-TUC members, and I think we can all agree they're a lower form of life ).

This restriction also answers the "corporate" question as only people who can do something for the TUC membership (in monetary terms) is being allowed to post (ie. not just flagrant advertising).

It might solve this, but it might also make it impossible for some small businesses which are already operating on slim margins (e.g. computer hardware sales) to participate and benefit.

[GregS]

Thought I should let people know where this is at. It has been approved, and we're just working out the final details. Danny is away this week, so look for the unveiling early next week!

If you have any last-minute general questions, post them here. If you have specific questions, perhaps about a post you'd like to make once the forum opens, feel free to PM or email me.

[danny]

I'm away all this week too until aug.25th....sorry....still send me a notice through pm or email and I will try and get it going this week.