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Disc in hand, touches ground - turnover?

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Disc in hand, touches ground - turnover?

Postby Edk001 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:39 am

New situation I came across in a game last week while marking a guy. He went down really low to try to throw around my mark (force flick, turned into my force to attempt a backhand pass). While bringing the disc around for his throw, he went down too low and the disc touched the ground for at least a count or two (I think he lost his balance and was trying to use his throwing hand to rebalance himself). However, the disc never left his hand.

I called it a turnover since it touched the ground. There was no contest on the call so we were back on O.

There's nothing that I could see in the 11th edition rules about ground contact while still in possession of the disc and whether or not this is a turnover.
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Re: Disc in hand, touches ground - turnover?

Postby GwaiLo » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:03 am

I don't see why it would be a turnover. Think of a layout....there are plenty of times that you catch in the air, and then slide on the ground with the disc making contact with the ground. And that's not a turnover, because you retain possession of the disc while doing so.

the only way I can see it being a downed disc or turnover in your situation would be if he released the disc either dropping it, or trying to throw a riser that touched the ground. But if it was still in his hand, I don't see it as a loss of possession.

I'm no rules expert by any means though. Just my 2 cents.

Edk001 wrote:New situation I came across in a game last week while marking a guy. He went down really low to try to throw around my mark (force flick, turned into my force to attempt a backhand pass). While bringing the disc around for his throw, he went down too low and the disc touched the ground for at least a count or two (I think he lost his balance and was trying to use his throwing hand to rebalance himself). However, the disc never left his hand.

I called it a turnover since it touched the ground. There was no contest on the call so we were back on O.

There's nothing that I could see in the 11th edition rules about ground contact while still in possession of the disc and whether or not this is a turnover.
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Postby Edk001 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:21 am

Ya, was thinking about the call afterwards and whether or not it was the correct call. Neither of us were sure but it was a friendly discussion (not argumentative at all like some people who get all worked up and defensive when someone calls something on them - been seeing too much of that from some people recently :p).
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Postby BBG » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:36 am

I would think that since the disc in possession is considered part of the thrower for the purpose of fouls, you could extend that reasoning in this situation; you can use your hand (or foot, or whatever) to balance yourself, so why not the disc?

Glad to hear you resolved it in a friendly manner.
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Postby GregS » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:54 am

BBG wrote:I would think that since the disc in possession is considered part of the thrower for the purpose of fouls, you could extend that reasoning in this situation; you can use your hand (or foot, or whatever) to balance yourself, so why not the disc?

That's right, though the rule that covers this doesn't actually deal with fouls. It's II.O.3:
A disc in a player’s possession is considered part of that player.

A player is, obviously, allowed to touch the ground, and therefore so is a disc in the player's possession.
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Postby Mortakai » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:51 pm

Section XII covers turnovers. Other than the various exceptions discussed in this section, turnovers generally happen when the disc touches the ground during a pass attempt before possession/reception. During possession itself, the disc can touch whatever/however.
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Postby Colonel » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:37 pm

Don't forget that we also check the disc in by touching the ground - this doesn't cause a turnover. Possession is the key(see section II. Definitions - R.2. ... For a live disc to be put into play, the thrower must establish a pivot at the appropriate spot on the field, touch the disc to the ground, and put it into play.).
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