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Pick it up!! and my problems with its implementation

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:09 am
by Osirus
Before I criticize, I do feel the need to say that as a male ultimate frisbee player I have been very lucky. I have been lucky because on all of my teams there has been talented, seasoned females that were comfortable playing already and were not starting from zero. I have also been lucky that most of them were not going to allow any guy to ignore them during games and only look for other men.
I also want to acknowledge the fact that not everyone has been as lucky as I am and there is a problem in which girls are not given the responsibility to handle the disc and are ignored while playing on the field. Even on teams I have played on I have noticed that the board can be shifted to focus on the male players on our team.
While admitting that there is a problem, I must say that I really dislike the “solutionâ€￾ to this problem for this one week. The first thing that I found fascinating was when I informed my team about this, the greatest disgust came from my female teammates for a variety of reasons. The reason why I dislike this method of solving the problem is that I still want to win next week so there are a bunch of different strategies I am considering implementing.

If there is one particularly strong girl, we will cross match so she won’t be able to impact the game.
¾ down the field we might switch guys onto girls and vis versa allowing a guy to guy score for one point
I might intentionally try to straddle the endzone line or jump out of the endzone if I guy was throwing the disc and I am sure there are many more ways to mutilate the game for the sake of the double point.

None of these strategies are good for ultimate and none of these strategies will make the games more enjoyable for guys or girls but all of them might be the best to win next week.
The reason I am posting is I am hoping to call on other players that might have better ways to involve more female handling without dramatically affecting strategy in the game for the next Pick it up!. (I can't state my support loudly enough for this initiative)
The first idea that came to mind is that any disc that lands out of bounds or in the endzone, that disc must be picked up by a lady and if a male initiates play the other team can call a violation resulting in a turnover. (I acknowledge that this would not be an adequate solution because it just means one of the girls on the team will be more involved and there still won’t be a reason for a guy to throw to a girl)

So TUC community any other ideas?

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:59 am
by kaitwill
I agree that this is not the solution. It's an incredibly easy way to either win, or force HUGE turnovers, depending how you play it. I'm not sure what the solution is but if the initiative is called Pick It Up shouldn't it stand to reason that the female players should indeed pick it up? It seems odd that something designed to encourage female players to be a part of the disc movement on field could potentially only start 10 feet (or less) outside the endzone. An idea might be to always have a female on the field as the primary handler. Even if she doesn't always touch the disc, she can keep communication open on the field between the handlers to know when each handler needs to be cutting and where. I realize this would be harder for the female players who aren't used to handling, but isn't that the reason we play? To push ourselves to become the best athletes we can possibly be? Female handlers are always in high demand, and if we encourage people into the position rather than pushing them to the side (I mean, literally, push them to the side - too many mixed teams leave their 3rd handler as the female and they hardly EVER see the disc) we could see huge growth in not only individual skill level among females but also in the general skill among teams because, as every great mixed team knows, you're only as strong as your women.

Re: Pick it up!! and my problems with its implementation

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:28 am
by lwswong
Osirus wrote:I must say that I really dislike the “solutionâ€￾ to this problem for this one week.


I think its safe to say that this initiative was never intended as a solution to anything.

but i think it will bring some awareness to teams in a tangible and extreme way, and sometimes that is what is needed to catalyse a shift in thinking about how some teams (under)utilize their ladies.

yes - it's different. yes, it could change the game. but you may be over thinking this. remember, this is for ONE WEEK.

I like all the other solutions posted here as well.

Just thinking aloud that maybe those are things that you implement on your team, regardless of whether its "pick it up week" or not. because that's REALLY the point, right?

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:34 am
by zdoerr
Firstly, i think it's a great idea.

Something to think about next week. They may not work for all teams or levels of competition, but:

It may be a good idea to have both captains agree prior to the game that both teams will only have a female player mark a female handler during this week. To prevent a typically larger wing spanned male to cover a female and force a turn-over. Putting a really tall marker on someone who is trying to gain confidence may discourage them and be counter productive to the purpose of this idea.

Also, captains may want to agree to a time cap or extend the points required to win the match. Since we could be done the game in half the time.

Re: Pick it up!! and my problems with its implementation

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:40 am
by gkitch
Osirus wrote:The first idea that came to mind is that any disc that lands out of bounds or in the endzone, that disc must be picked up by a lady and if a male initiates play the other team can call a violation resulting in a turnover.


So you're saying that you would like to see it implemented that a disc out of bounds, regardless of where, forces a developing player to pick the disc up, even if he/she isn't comfortable? What about if the turnover is in the end zone? Then you're forcing someone to pick the disc up, on the sideline, goal line, or corner even if they don't want to. Skill development relies on being in a comfortable situation where the developing player feels confident that he/she will be successful. Forcing someone to do something that they don't want to do actually inhibits growth regardless of gender. You don't make a handler by forcing them into a tough situation where they might have to make a low percentage throw. You develop a handler by getting them the disc and then busting your ass with good cuts so that they have a high percentage throw - either upfield or swing. So the Pick It Up rule - scrap that idea. The 2-point option is better.

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:44 am
by GwaiLo
zdoerr wrote:...
It may be a good idea to have both captains agree prior to the game that both teams will only have a female player mark a female handler during this week. To prevent a typically larger wing spanned male to cover a female and force a turn-over. Putting a really tall marker on someone who is trying to gain confidence may discourage them and be counter productive to the purpose of this idea.
...


That would essentially mean zone is out the window too. Which would be kind of silly to take away that option IMO.

And now more generic statements to everyone, and not just the poster of the above...

I think people are overthinking this. Just play frisbee, let the ladies throw (like you should always do anyway), and if they throw for a point THAT WEEK, you get 2 points. It's meant to be fun, and to encourage ladies to look up field.

I certainly agree that it has flaws. But again, like Lawrence said, it's not meant to be a solution. It's just something different for one week.

Let your ladies play. And ladies...play, earn the disc, and get the disc. Good cuts should be rewarded, regardless of what gender the player is. Any team I have played on plays this way. And like others have said, GOOD LADIES WIN MIXED GAMES. If you haven't figured this out by now,...you're probably losing. LOL.

If ladies are playing on teams that are looking them off, then talk to the captain and your teammates about it. If they keep looking you off, then find another team that will appreciate you. There are ALWAYS teams looking for ladies. There's certainly no shortage of opportunity. So get out there, play hard, get rewarded (like any player), and develop your skills at the same time.

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:09 pm
by muskokajoe
[quote="GwaiLo"][/quote] What he said. :D

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:42 pm
by Lana
Geoff has a really good point about developing players and confidence. But those players need to be encouraged to pick up the disc and gain confidence. The only way you will get more comfortable with the disc is if you pick it up and throw it. I am appalled that I still hear men on the field (not my teammates) tell their female teammates "don't pick up the disc." This happens, even in pick up games, if you can believe it. We all need to feel like we have an equal right to the disc. I commend TUC for making an effort to encourage more female participation generally and in the handling role in particular with this initiative.

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:48 pm
by GwaiLo
Lana wrote:Geoff has a really good point about developing players and confidence. But those players need to be encouraged to pick up the disc and gain confidence. The only way you will get more comfortable with the disc is if you pick it up and throw it. I am appalled that I still hear men on the field (not my teammates) tell their female teammates "don't pick up the disc." This happens, even in pick up games, if you can believe it. We all need to feel like we have an equal right to the disc. I commend TUC for making an effort to encourage more female participation generally and in the handling role in particular with this initiative.


To be fair, I've heard people say "don't pickup" to guys just as often. In general, it's said to people that aren't usually the stronger handlers on the team. And typically it happens in lower tier games, where there's a more clear distinction between handlers and cutters. In the higher tier games, where pretty much anyone can fill in either role, I think it's fair to say that it's said less often. And again, if it is said, it's likely not specifically said because of sex, but rather due to the person's strengths and weaknesses.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Pick it up!! and my problems with its implementation

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:28 pm
by HotSauce
Osirus wrote:The first thing that I found fascinating was when I informed my team about this, the greatest disgust came from my female teammates for a variety of reasons.


I would be interested to hear those reasons. In my opinion, this discussion right here shows me that this initiative is a good start. It's definitely not perfect but in the end, this is a game that we play for fun. The rule change for next week doesn't FORCE women to throw for points. Teams can still choose to play however they want and any points that women happen to throw will count for two. But this is making teams think about the role of women in ultimate. And that's a good thing.

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:39 pm
by gkitch
Lana wrote:But those players need to be encouraged to pick up the disc and gain confidence. The only way you will get more comfortable with the disc is if you pick it up and throw it.


This is true, and one thing that was missing from my previous post. Developing players need to be encouraged to pick it up and throw it. That's the only way to gain experience. The hope here is that teams have enough spirit to do this naturally without having to implement rules. So it should be a choice about who brings it in play, not a rule.

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:46 pm
by brooks
I thought it was going to be girl on girl action when I first heard it.
So, who wouldn't want that?
Another option, points only count when it's girl/girl. Or I guess girl/guy. Some people enjoy watching that too.

Me

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:29 am
by Edk001
Stupidest comment that I've heard a guy say (I heard this from a female player on a team that played at regionals last year, from a guy who typically just plays league), "your job if you get the disc is to get it back to a guy". This female player was not a beginner either, so that told you something about his attitude towards women players.

Sadly, these dinosaurs are the reason initiatives like this exist.

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:52 am
by Jane
Thanks everyone for your comments. We're really glad to see that this initiative has generated so much interest.

As some have said, this initiative was not meant to be a perfect solution. It's just an attempt to get everyone to think about how to foster development of female players. That said, we'd love to hear if people have other suggestions for this initiative. The women's committee is always looking for participants :)

The two-point assist is happening for just one week, but the initiative covers more than just that week. Weekly pickup and female representation at the captains' level are also being implemented. We're trying to promote environments where people can feel comfortable - that's where development happens.

We really appreciate all the feedback we've been getting. If you have any comments, please feel free to keep the conversation going here, or email pickitup at tuc dot org.

Women's committee

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:43 am
by tjweir
GwaiLo wrote:That would essentially mean zone is out the window too. Which would be kind of silly to take away that option IMO.

And now more generic statements to everyone, and not just the poster of the above...

I think people are overthinking this. Just play frisbee, let the ladies throw (like you should always do anyway), and if they throw for a point THAT WEEK, you get 2 points. It's meant to be fun, and to encourage ladies to look up field.

I certainly agree that it has flaws. But again, like Lawrence said, it's not meant to be a solution. It's just something different for one week.

Let your ladies play. And ladies...play, earn the disc, and get the disc. Good cuts should be rewarded, regardless of what gender the player is. Any team I have played on plays this way. And like others have said, GOOD LADIES WIN MIXED GAMES. If you haven't figured this out by now,...you're probably losing. LOL.

If ladies are playing on teams that are looking them off, then talk to the captain and your teammates about it. If they keep looking you off, then find another team that will appreciate you. There are ALWAYS teams looking for ladies. There's certainly no shortage of opportunity. So get out there, play hard, get rewarded (like any player), and develop your skills at the same time.


Yup.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:43 am
by HotSauce
I'm curious to see how the games went last night.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:15 am
by chris.price
We had fun with it, three of our first four points were thrown by our women, therefore, 7 points!! Woooooo!!

In the second half we reverted a bit more to form; some of our women are just a lot comfortable cutting into the end zone for the point, rather than trying to throw the point. Old habits die hard. The fact that we were playing at wind tunnel Centennial didn't help, it's harder for everyone to throw the disc successfully.

(We're in intermediate, for what's it worth).

I think in general it was super-fun and did encourage more touches from our women, which is the point.

As far as the original poster and his complaints, there's a thing called SPIRIT. And this is LEAGUE. Not nationals, not regionals, not a competitive tournament, LEAGUE. Have fun with it. Inject a bit of levity into your games. You can go back to being grumpy and ultra-competitive next week.

And if you have any better ideas, I'm sure the Women's Committee on the board would love to hear them.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:55 am
by muskokajoe
Our ladies (mostly veteran subs who handle anyway) threw 5 (10) of our 11 points!

Fittingly enough, one of their ladies threw the last point to put them up 12-11. I think their ladies only threw one other.

You go, girls! :D

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:57 pm
by Jane
Thanks to everyone for their feedback. So far, so good! Keep it coming!

Just a friendly reminder that the captains' clause can be used to adjust based on your situation this week - for example, if you're concerned that the game will end early because of the two-point assist rule, feel free to extend the limit past 17. I heard of one game where the captains did this (extended to 21 instead of 17) and the teams were able to play for their entire time slot.

Nice work everyone! Can't wait to hear more!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:50 pm
by lwswong
speaking from our team's experience, we scored 8 of our 11 goals (19 points) using our ladies. we're a team that actively uses our ladies throughout the game, but we've NEVER had that high an output before especially in the endzone.

it was a great thing to see, and i think for our team, broke down some of the barriers of our own gameplay that we have formed over many years of playing together.

one interesting thing that came out of it, was that at after the first few points of playing very patiently, some of our ladies started the greedy gunslinging into the endzone, calling off the open swing to the guy. watching this time and time again was frustrating and made me realize that this is probably how a lot of the ladies feel when the gents do the same thing. the good news is that they learned their lessons and made better decisions later in the game, which is to say that they have learned faster than I.

all in all, i personally thought it was a lot of fun and we'll take some good lessons into the coming weeks.

we've heard a bunch of perspectives from guys so far. would be great to hear from some of the ladies about their experiences!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:40 pm
by Harder
Our game experience was our ladies throwing 7 of our 17 scores (accounting for 14 of 24 points).

It seemed that the added rule distracted us at the beginning of the game, making for a disjointed offence for the first few points. Then we said "forget about the bonus, just score" and the disc flowed much better.

Echoing a previous comment, our women definitely made more risky throws than usual. There are positives (pushing the envelope is necessary to improve; when a chancy throw works there's celebration) and minuses (undisciplined throw choices often lead to turnovers) to this. Also, I think our women possessed the disc in the "red zone" slightly more than usual.

In our game we decided to implement the rule as follows: we played the game until one team had 17 scores. Then we added the bonus for women scores to get total points for each team (for each team we tracked total scores and women scores so we could easily see total points at any time). This worked fairly well and got us the same length game we would have had without the additional rule. One drawback is that because we greatly outscored the other team in female-thrown points (7-1) we did reach a situation where the game was not over, but the other team was mathematically eliminated.

Mathew

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:29 pm
by nantana50
lwswong wrote:we've heard a bunch of perspectives from guys so far. would be great to hear from some of the ladies about their experiences!


Bonus volunteer points for ladies who post to the BBS? :shock:

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:44 pm
by Mottzky
I'm a lady and I LOVE the initiative. Thankfully I am on a team that already encourages full and equal participation, but new formats are always fun to play in. I also wanted to point out that on one point when Janssen was marking me...she tooted.
I also saw Harder playing on the field beside me yesterday and he had a tennis skirt and wig on. He threw for 7 goals, I think. He's a handsome lady!

I guess on a serious note - we are really looking forward to our game tonight and others this week, in this format. Well done, TUC!
It's a game. Have fun with it!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:45 pm
by cdilla
I'm not a lady but I thought I could give some input:

We ran into a bit of controversy in our game last night.... We went with our normal defense (Hybrid Zone) and our opponents made remarks that it wasn't spirited for us to play that way during the "pick it up".

As our ladies regularly handle anyway, we were quickly able to take a very commanding lead with the 2 point rule (10 points in the first 15 minutes). The only real impact was that instead of dumping it to a handler on the line, our ladies often would throw a hammer to one of our stronger / taller players.

As a team we discussed whether we should appease our opponents and switch to man, but it was ruled out based on the fact the season just started, and many of us are trying to improve on our defense.

The issue that was raised was that us throwing a zone was not in the spirit of having ladies handle which was echoed on the board here.

Ultimately when we reached 16 points we switched to man defense. The nature of the game changed completely – our opponents were able to gather an offense (irrespective of men or women handling) and get 6 uncontested points against us. One could argue that they may not have beaten our zone regardless of the pick-it-up rule…. However the morale of us scoring two points on their drops was quickly felt.

When the game ended at ~8pm, we offered to play for fun or to extend the point cap – but our opponents declined… I believe they did not have fun….

TL:DR - The pick-it up rule unfairly penalizes teams that do not have strong women handlers – especially if an opponent runs a zone….. For the initiative to be most effective, teams should be forced to play gender matched man defense.


Just my thoughts…….

- Col

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:08 pm
by HotSauce
cdilla wrote:I'm not a lady but I thought I could give some input:

We ran into a bit of controversy in our game last night.... We went with our normal defense (Hybrid Zone) and our opponents made remarks that it wasn't spirited for us to play that way during the "pick it up".

As our ladies regularly handle anyway, we were quickly able to take a very commanding lead with the 2 point rule (10 points in the first 15 minutes). The only real impact was that instead of dumping it to a handler on the line, our ladies often would throw a hammer to one of our stronger / taller players.

As a team we discussed whether we should appease our opponents and switch to man, but it was ruled out based on the fact the season just started, and many of us are trying to improve on our defense.

The issue that was raised was that us throwing a zone was not in the spirit of having ladies handle which was echoed on the board here.

Ultimately when we reached 16 points we switched to man defense. The nature of the game changed completely – our opponents were able to gather an offense (irrespective of men or women handling) and get 6 uncontested points against us. One could argue that they may not have beaten our zone regardless of the pick-it-up rule…. However the morale of us scoring two points on their drops was quickly felt.

When the game ended at ~8pm, we offered to play for fun or to extend the point cap – but our opponents declined… I believe they did not have fun….

TL:DR - The pick-it up rule unfairly penalizes teams that do not have strong women handlers – especially if an opponent runs a zone….. For the initiative to be most effective, teams should be forced to play gender matched man defense.


Just my thoughts…….

- Col


Interesting dilemma. In the future, it may be better to have the Pick It Up week a bit later in the season after the ladder has equalized the matchups but not too late as to affect jostling for playoff ranking. It seems like this team would have had problems with the zone regardless of the change. IMHO, this week is not FORCING women to handle. Just encouraging teams to rethink strategy a bit. Here's a question to tease more discussion. Do you find that teams are more willing to work on a male newbie's throwing than a female newbie's?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:02 pm
by chellezoom
Harder wrote:Our game experience was our ladies throwing 7 of our 17 scores (accounting for 14 of 24 points).

It seemed that the added rule distracted us at the beginning of the game, making for a disjointed offence for the first few points. Then we said "forget about the bonus, just score" and the disc flowed much better.

Echoing a previous comment, our women definitely made more risky throws than usual. There are positives (pushing the envelope is necessary to improve; when a chancy throw works there's celebration) and minuses (undisciplined throw choices often lead to turnovers) to this. Also, I think our women possessed the disc in the "red zone" slightly more than usual.

In our game we decided to implement the rule as follows: we played the game until one team had 17 scores. Then we added the bonus for women scores to get total points for each team (for each team we tracked total scores and women scores so we could easily see total points at any time). This worked fairly well and got us the same length game we would have had without the additional rule. One drawback is that because we greatly outscored the other team in female-thrown points (7-1) we did reach a situation where the game was not over, but the other team was mathematically eliminated.

Mathew


Heh, to add to this...

I'm definitely not a handler but my friends who had me out sub last night don't seem to know this. However, I had a great time stepping into a role I'm not used to at a higher level. And you're right - I made some risky throws (and got handblocked - lesson learnt very quickly) and I made some great upfield passes and unloaded a couple of flick hucks. My focus wasn't ever on scoring for 2 points it was just to get as many touches on the disc as possible without clogging/cutting off my teammates. I definitely played a little less conservatively and it was nice to see the ladies and guys equally trying to use each other to move the disc into our hands and when we swung and used ALL of the players on the field we played great ultimate.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:01 am
by rahil_s
I think people may be missing the point of the initiative. While the two points is an advantage, the idea was to allow women that don't normally handle to try and be handlers because the reward is so great.

Teams with strong women handlers should try and have thier women cutters handle.

Winning is important, but so is developing the sport.

Edit Note: That should be more clear.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:20 am
by HotSauce
rahil_s wrote:the idea was to allow non-women handlers to try and be handlers because the reward is so great.


Speaking as a "non-woman non-handler", I think you meant women non-handlers...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:18 am
by GwaiLo
HotSauce wrote:
rahil_s wrote:the idea was to allow non-women handlers to try and be handlers because the reward is so great.


Speaking as a "non-woman non-handler", I think you meant women non-handlers...


or maybe he meant:
"non-man-handlers" or even "non-man non-handlers"...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
by HotSauce
GwaiLo wrote:
HotSauce wrote:
rahil_s wrote:the idea was to allow non-women handlers to try and be handlers because the reward is so great.


Speaking as a "non-woman non-handler", I think you meant women non-handlers...


or maybe he meant:
"non-man-handlers" or even "non-man non-handlers"...


Next year this week will be called "Non-Manhandling Week". Darren will protest.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:09 pm
by dentonmatthew
If I may, dont just pick it up. Pull the trigger!
Outside in flick, cross field hammer, half field huck?
If you try throwing it, you might be surprised to find you have it, and can do it!
More than half of handling is confidence, use this week to build on yours.

On a side note, if there is one thing we can all do to build up the confidence of our fellow non handling players, don't call for a dump. We can disregard conservative posession style ultimate for a week. If you get to stall 9, you get hucking practice.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:22 pm
by smash-crunch
Forcing teams to play 4 women 3 men would have been much simpler without changing the strategy of the entire game.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:59 pm
by GregS
smash-crunch wrote:Forcing teams to play 4 women 3 men would have been much simpler without changing the strategy of the entire game.

Forcing teams to alter their roster for one week seems counter-productive. Part of the impetus for forming the Women's Committee (from whence this initiative came) was that there are often not enough women for all the teams that want to play, and this would only compound the issue.

Besides, playing 3/4 DOES change the strategy of the game.

FWIW, I told my team last night not to approach the game any different from any other week, but then again we've always made good use of our women. (They threw 6 times for points, and so did our men, so it seems we've got a pretty good balance.)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:31 pm
by Emma
What I liked about my "pick it up" game last night:

- The guys on the other team re-thought their strategy. They didn't create an offensive play that was just guy-huck-to-the-endzone, they wanted to/had to create some sort of flow on the field

- The girls on the other team were more adventurous than normal with throws. They tried the hammers and break throws, and were not criticized for their failed attempts.

Our game was with fairly competitive players (where the girls would normally touch the disc a lot anyways), and I enjoyed the game. I'm happy to support a club-wide initiative even if it may be more directed towards rec/intermediate teams.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:36 am
by -JR-
Super proud of our ladies last night.... 9 assists amongst all 5 women, with no more than 2 each! We used either 2 female handlers or 3 female handlers in our Ho stack and we rotated all the women to give everyone a lot of touches. We didn't specifically try to score with our women (ie. if a man had the disc or was standing over the disc, he was equally encouraged to pick it up and throw for a score), but it happened naturally within the flow of our game and our women were really excited about getting the opportunity (3 out of the 5 do not commonly handle). When the other team put a zone on us , deep in our end and going up-wind, we didn't change our all-lady handler line, but rather game them the opportunity to get us out of a jam. One time, a female handler panicked and threw it away (just like I do). The second time the same woman pump faked and hit the popper, and we subsequently charged up the full field for an up-wind point.

In our first 3 games this was the best flow we've had thus far. Our women really benefitted from it as did our entire team. Moving forward we are going to do more 2:1 (F:M) handling lines as it helped improve confidence, spacing, and flow.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:27 am
by katharoo
As a normally more conservative lady handler, I really enjoyed this initiative as it at least helped me to think differently while playing the game, even though it didn't result in more actual assists for me. What it did result in, however, was the confidence to take more risks. Thanks TUC, I think this was a great initiative!

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:53 am
by HotSauce
nantana50 wrote:
lwswong wrote:we've heard a bunch of perspectives from guys so far. would be great to hear from some of the ladies about their experiences!


Bonus volunteer points for ladies who post to the BBS? :shock:


Do it! Do it!

Pick It Up Review

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:12 pm
by makon
Enjoyed it, though I think we might need a throwing clinic though for all non-handlers. Some of the teams I play on, we all gotten into bad habits of not picking up the disc and letting the handler do it....but that might explain why we don't have a consistent roster. Game didn't end up being as fun for all non-handlers. Which this week really bought out the difference if there is a player next to the disc pick it up! doesn't matter the gender u are now open without set D!

-Some teams reluctantly got talked into Pick It Up. Others were fine, main concern was the points being tallied too fast and game ending too soon.
-Playing against some teams, they changed their strategy late in the game to use their girls for the assist (they were doing the hucks even upwind and got tired) finally realized they can get some more points if they involved their whole team and of course shorter throws.
-I still see the guy huck to the endzone, I don't mind it if its a good open look, helps to keep the defense honest.
-Now that we are trying to use the whole team. The flow has gotten a bit better.

I'm hoping this helps the teams I play on that have set handlers. Sometimes its just better to have any player to pick up the disc if you'll already there than to wait for the whole team to come towards the disc and have the defense already set...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:28 pm
by dime
The real question is which team had the most 2 pointers!?!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:49 pm
by smash-crunch
GregS wrote:
smash-crunch wrote:Forcing teams to play 4 women 3 men would have been much simpler without changing the strategy of the entire game.

Forcing teams to alter their roster for one week seems counter-productive. Part of the impetus for forming the Women's Committee (from whence this initiative came) was that there are often not enough women for all the teams that want to play, and this would only compound the issue.

Besides, playing 3/4 DOES change the strategy of the game.

FWIW, I told my team last night not to approach the game any different from any other week, but then again we've always made good use of our women. (They threw 6 times for points, and so did our men, so it seems we've got a pretty good balance.)


The team we played ended up going 4 girls for every point they received, so we were forced to match, and had the 2 point thing on top of that. I'm sure plenty of other teams played 4 girls to take advantage of the rule too, regardless of if their opponent had enough girls to sub.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:06 pm
by HotSauce
1) if you don't want them to have the option to play four girls, stop scoring on them.

2) "enough girls" is at least four.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:27 pm
by GregS
smash-crunch wrote:The team we played ended up going 4 girls for every point they received, so we were forced to match, and had the 2 point thing on top of that. I'm sure plenty of other teams played 4 girls to take advantage of the rule too, regardless of if their opponent had enough girls to sub.

Looks like your team scored a LOT in that game, much more than your opponent did, so it must have been exhausting for your women.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:59 pm
by Crunchy
How did the Sunday free clinic go?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:31 am
by Jane
It went well, Bill, thanks for asking! We had 16 ladies out. Lots mentioned that this was their first year playing so most had played about three games. A few players had played only one game before coming out. They were all pretty skilled! We were impressed at how quickly everyone picked up what we taught.

We taught throwing and catching, cutting, and man defence - a lot to cover in two hours! Hopefully we didn't scare the participants away :)

Thanks to our participants - your enthusiasm helped me to remember why I love this sport so much :)

Also a big thanks to our coaches: Greg Lang, Heidi Siu, Juan Gomez, and Kevin Christensen!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:05 am
by tubs
Hi Jane!

Will there be another free clinic held similar to the one held on Sunday? I know of a few ladies that are interested in learning the game but they weren't available on Sunday.

I would also love to help out if there is another one coming up!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:11 am
by Jane
Hi Sharleen - great questions!

We are thinking of planning another clinic to coincide with the start of fall league. I know that's a long time from now, so if the ladies were looking to go to something a little earlier, I would encourage them to email admin@tuc.org. (I'm not sure if it's still possible to get in on the 5-week clinic series as week 2 happened this past Monday, but here's the link: http://tuc.org/News/2014/5/9/2014-clinic-series/)

Thanks for your message!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:40 am
by HotSauce
Now that we are half way through "the week after Pick It Up", I'm wondering if teams have seen any change in the way they play. Or have most teams considered last week as an interesting diversion and have gone back to "regular" play? Also, how are the Friday Pick It Up games going?