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Rule about disc traveling forward before turnover

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Rule about disc traveling forward before turnover

Postby cameronashford » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:45 pm

Let's say there is an A team and B team and I am on A team. If during the game B team throws the disc and I swat it down to the ground, then it is a turnover and the disc's possession goes to A team.

What I wanted to know was say the same scenario happened, but this time instead of swatting it down I jumped, and while in midair threw the disc forwards (let's just say 10 feet) before I landed. Is there a rule against this, or would the disc be played from where the throw landed? Just because I think that discs swatted forward are still played from where they land.

Sorry, I've always wanted to know :P
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Postby byue » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:57 pm

I'm pretty sure that it would be a turn over since you stopped the rotation meaning you had control of the disc. The reason why you can play it where it landed after it's been swatted is because no one had full control of the disc
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Postby dlindqui » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:03 pm

If you grab the disc, then throw it forward to no one, it would be another turnover - the disc would would go back to team B. I suppose it would be played were it landed, just by the other team! Once you stop rotation of the disc in your hands it's in your posession - whether you're touching the ground or not doesn't matter.

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Postby cameronashford » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:19 pm

ok, so if I jump and catch it in midair and drop it before I land, then would it go back to team A since I stopped rotation and dropped it (kind of like a fumble)
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Postby tugbo » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:25 pm

The key rules are XII.C

"A pass is intercepted if a defensive player obtains possession of the disc, but if the defender accidentally loses possession of the disc before or during ground contact related to the catch, the pass is considered blocked rather than intercepted."

and II.O.

"Possession of the disc: Sustained contact with, and control of, a non-spinning disc."

So if team B throws the disc and then a player on team A catches it in the air and then throws it and nobody catches the throw then the possesion goes to B (where the disc landed).

There were two turnovers. B turned it over when A caught it in the air, and then A turned it over when they threw it and it landed 10 feet downfield.
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Postby tugbo » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:30 pm

cameronashford wrote:ok, so if I jump and catch it in midair and drop it before I land, then would it go back to team A since I stopped rotation and dropped it (kind of like a fumble)


Depends on whether you intentionally dropped it or not. XII.C says that if you drop the disc accidently while in the air or in the landing then you treat it as if you swatted the disc. If you intentionally dropped it then it is a double tournover (as if you caught it and threw it to the ground).
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Postby cameronashford » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:37 pm

Oh okay, thanks a lot guys.
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Postby muskokajoe » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:27 pm

I like the question, as I've seen II.O called without reference to XII.C - the defender caught the disc in-air and then dropped it on contact with the ground - the call on the field was a turnover on the defender, but should have just been a D.

I think there is still room for discussion about huge Ds (not stopping rotation) knocking the disc way back down the field, but these would be mostly splitting hairs over something unlikely, and if it actually did happen, you kind of want to acknowledge a D that big by giving them the field position anyway.
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Postby GregS » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:27 pm

muskokajoe wrote:I think there is still room for discussion about huge Ds (not stopping rotation) knocking the disc way back down the field

Don't forget that, if you just bat it away, in any direction, there's always a chance that the other team might catch it before it hits the ground, thereby retaining possession. Even the original thrower is allowed to catch it in this case, since someone else touched it in the interim.
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Postby Mortakai » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:46 pm

cameronashford wrote:ok, so if I jump and catch it in midair and drop it before I land, then would it go back to team A since I stopped rotation and dropped it (kind of like a fumble)

I think you meant to say, "... go back to team B ...".

And as said, it's yes unless loss of possession was accidental.

One additional thought that hasn't yet come up in comments. Yes, you can MAC the disc way up (or down, depending on perspective) the field, and that's where you can play it, and that also runs the risk of the original offense catching the disc and retaining possession, but ... and here's the additional part ... if the MACing defender sees this play happening, and he then decides to chase down and catch the disc, it would be a travel because of the intentional MAC to himself. However, he'd still keep the disc, but would take it back to where he'd MACed it.
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Postby cameronashford » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:54 pm

Yes sorry i meant team B.
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Sideline Hammer rule

Postby dentonmatthew » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:31 pm

Always wanted clarification on this one, as it happened in a game.

Thrower is on the sideline, throws a hammer that starts out, 40 yards or so comes back in, and then over-rotates and lands out again.

The same thinking migh apply on a windy day to a huck that starts out on one side of the field, then crosses the field to land out on the other side, like a crazy wind gust.

Where was the disc "out"? From where the thrower stands, or when it went out the 2nd time?
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Postby Gonzo » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:42 pm

Where it went out the 2nd time. The rule (IX. H) reads "the most recent of the following events occurred" and the first of those events is where the disc completely crossed the perimeter line. Which would apply to your situation.

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Re: Sideline Hammer rule

Postby Peeters » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:42 pm

dentonmatthew wrote:Always wanted clarification on this one, as it happened in a game.

Thrower is on the sideline, throws a hammer that starts out, 40 yards or so comes back in, and then over-rotates and lands out again.

The same thinking migh apply on a windy day to a huck that starts out on one side of the field, then crosses the field to land out on the other side, like a crazy wind gust.

Where was the disc "out"? From where the thrower stands, or when it went out the 2nd time?


Second time, since it came back in. IX. H.:

To continue play after the disc becomes out-of-bounds, a member of the team gaining possession of the disc must carry it to, and put it into play at, the spot on the playing field proper nearest to where the most recent of the following events occurred:
1. the disc completely crossed the perimeter line;
2. the disc contacted an in-bounds player;
3. the disc contacted a defensive player; or
4. the disc became out-of-bounds due to contact with the out-of-bounds area or a player while any part of the disc was inside the perimeter line.

The disc actually crosses the perimeter line going out twice, so since you take the most recent event from above, that's the second time going out.
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