counting stalls while exiting the endzone

[gabriel.tsang]

in the playoffs yesterday, i came upon something i've never experienced before.

my team was on defense and the opposing team threw to score. i was covering my man deep in the back of the endzone and cut off the disc, catching it near the back of the endzone.

my newly-made defender IMMEDIATELY began counting stalls as i brought the disc to the front of the endzone, reaching stall 4 by that time (since i was walking). i was quite surprised and said something along the lines of, "What the?! you can start counting stalls?" he quickly replied, "yes" ... and i made a clean pass at stall 8. no harm done.

as we moved down the field, i asked for an explanation. he said it was because i had gained possession, which seems like a legitimate reason. however, if that was the case, i would be entitled to stop bringing the disc to the front of the endzone at any time and throw at any time. so now i'm pretty confused.

is it just general etiquette to allow the person who catches the endzone D to get to the front of the endzone before counting stalls?

[tugbo]

Relevant rule is XIV.A.2

Only the marker (II.K) may initiate or continue a stall count, and may do so anytime a thrower has possession of a disc that is live or in play. However, directly after a turnover or when putting the pull into play the stall may not be initiated before a pivot is established, unless delay of game or pre-stall rules (XIII.A.3, XIII.A.4, XIII.A.5 or VI.B.5.d) apply.

Catching the disc on defense means a turnover has occurred. And it does not sound like you either delayed the game or established a pivot.

Looks like the stall count started too early.

Note: XIII.A.3, XIII.A.4, XIII.A.5 or VI.B.5.d are all delay of game rules that don't apply to this situation.

[mark_tran]

In regards to throwing the disc without bringing it to the front of the endzone, see below:

X. End Zone Possession

A. If a turnover results in a team gaining possession in the end zone that they are defending, the player in possession must immediately either:

1. put the disc into play at the spot of the disc (to fake a throw or pause after gaining possession commits the player to put the disc into play at that spot); or

2. Carry the disc directly to the closest point on the goal line and put it into play at that spot. If this option is chosen, the player taking possession must put the disc into play at the goal line. Failure to do so is a travel.

[gabriel.tsang]

thanks for both replies!

after catching the D in the endzone, i immediately began a brisk walk to the front of the endzone. no faking or establishing pivot. i probably "put the disc into play" by tapping the ground when i got to the front too.

i had given in on the premise that the other team was full of people who appeared to play a lot of ultimate and (wrongfully) presumed they knew the rules. anyhow, no harm done to the play.

[lwswong]

thanks for both replies!


i had given in on the premise that the other team was full of people who appeared to play a lot of ultimate and (wrongfully) presumed they knew the rules. anyhow, no harm done to the play.

the other team may have been confused with other times when the offense catches the disc, and you can start the stall count even if they run into the endzone / fall down / are out of bounds and need to re-establish their pivot before throwing.

the key difference here is that its a turnover, not an offensive catch.

[mark_tran]

the other team may have been confused with other times when the offense catches the disc, and you can start the stall count even if they run into the endzone / fall down / are out of bounds and need to re-establish their pivot before throwing.

the key difference here is that its a turnover, not an offensive catch.

Actually, someone correct me if I'm wrong but any catch whether offensive or defensive that happens in-bounds on the playing field proper(meaning not including end-zones) can have a stall count initiated right away without having to wait for the player to get up/establish a pivot/come back in-bounds.

[Mortakai]

Actually, someone correct me if I'm wrong but any catch whether offensive or defensive that happens in-bounds on the playing field proper(meaning not including end-zones) can have a stall count initiated right away without having to wait for the player to get up/establish a pivot/come back in-bounds.

On offense, yes. On defense, no.

The rule as quoted in the first reply, below, applies:

...directly after a turnover ... the stall may not be initiated before a pivot is established...

And so, if the defense catches it, you need to wait for the pivot.

[mark_tran]

Ah yes. I was wrong

[gkitch]

Relevant rule is XIV.A.2

Only the marker (II.K) may initiate or continue a stall count, and may do so anytime a thrower has possession of a disc that is live or in play. However, directly after a turnover or when putting the pull into play the stall may not be initiated before a pivot is established, unless delay of game or pre-stall rules (XIII.A.3, XIII.A.4, XIII.A.5 or VI.B.5.d) apply.

What are the rules for delay of game because I tried to call it on somebody earlier in the season and he squawked. We were approaching hard cap, my defender (new team in possession) was closest so I tapped it in and called "Delay of game, 3, 2, 1,"

It was in the heat of the moment and then a debate ensued about if it was 3 seconds, 5 seconds, or 10 seconds. No harm done in the end though.

[GregS]

Relevant rule is XIV.A.2

Only the marker (II.K) may initiate or continue a stall count, and may do so anytime a thrower has possession of a disc that is live or in play. However, directly after a turnover or when putting the pull into play the stall may not be initiated before a pivot is established, unless delay of game or pre-stall rules (XIII.A.3, XIII.A.4, XIII.A.5 or VI.B.5.d) apply.

What are the rules for delay of game because I tried to call it on somebody earlier in the season and he squawked. We were approaching hard cap, my defender (new team in possession) was closest so I tapped it in and called "Delay of game, 3, 2, 1,"

It was in the heat of the moment and then a debate ensued about if it was 3 seconds, 5 seconds, or 10 seconds. No harm done in the end though.

Too much work to look up the relevant rules, even though you quoted tugbo's post where he said exactly what sections to look in? It's good that you want to learn the rule, but by actually reading them you'll gain a much better understanding. There's a link to a wonderful version (with many annotations that clarify the intent of the wording) under The Game -> Rules in our top menu.

Essentially, if the player now on offence is standing over the disc, it's a count down from 2. If they are not, it's 10. If the disc is in the end zone or out of bounds, it's 20. And if the disc is not reasonably retrievable in 20 seconds (over a fence, down a hill, etc.) the count is paused while the disc is retrieved or a substitute is located.

[john mc]

Does the defender have to be standing over the disc to initiate the count?

If the disc is in the endzone and the offense can bring it up to the line, can the defender initiate the stall count at the line or do they have to stand over the disc?

If the offense picks up the disc and walks it to the line, does the defender have to stop the stall count? Last year, I ran into a situation where the offense picked up the disc in the end zone and walked it to the line but the defender was already at stall 5 (the defender had clearly counted down from 10 and then initiated the stall count). By the time the offense had brought it up to the line, the stall count was at 9. Something didn't seem right about the situation but I haven't read the rulebook since the 4th edition came out so I wasn't sure if the call was legit.

[alouis]

It would appear I made a mistake last year...

Relevant rule is XII.4.B

If the disc is in the end zone, after twenty seconds elapse, a defensive player within three meters of the disc may announce “disc in,â€￾ and then initiate and continue the stall count, but only if a defensive player has given audible warnings of twenty, ten and five seconds (the pre-stall).

As long as the defender is within 3 meters of the disc, they should be able to initiate the pre-stall count. Since the offence has 20 seconds to put the disc into play, I would say that the defender can continue to count if the offense is walking the disc up to the line.

Either way, its a 10 second pre-stall in the playing field proper, and 20 seconds if the disc is in the end zone or out-of-bounds. So you're right, the call wasn't legit.

[Mortakai]

{insert questions explained in the rules}

...but I haven't read the rulebook since the 4th edition came out ...

uh huh *nods*... perhaps you {insert appropriate finishing word to this sentence} - hint: starts with "s"... ends with "hould" ;p

Relevant rule is XII.4.B

If the disc is in the end zone, after twenty seconds elapse, a defensive player within three meters of the disc may announce “disc in,â€￾ and then initiate and continue the stall count, but only if a defensive player has given audible warnings of twenty, ten and five seconds (the pre-stall).

As long as the defender is within 3 meters of the disc, they should be able to initiate the pre-stall count.

Actually, the rule you just quoted states the warnings (pre-stall count) require a defensive player. NOT that this player needs to be within 3 meters of the disc.

Yes, only a defender within 3 meters of the disc can do the stall count, but the pre-stall can be done by any of the 7 defenders on the field, and does not need to be the same person as the marker, nor within marking distance.

[john mc]

Hey Aaron, you might have counted down from 20, I don't remember. The real question I had was whether or not you could continue counting stalls while the offense was walking the disc up the line.

[P.Sleeves]

Hey Aaron, you might have counted down from 20, I don't remember. The real question I had was whether or not you could continue counting stalls while the offense was walking the disc up the line.

Discussed this with an observer over beers last week. According to her, once the pre-stall from 20 is complete, a defender within 3 meters of where the disc currently is can start counting stalls. Offence maintains the option of walking the disc up or not, but stalls can continue if they decide to bring it up.

[GregS]

Hey Aaron, you might have counted down from 20, I don't remember. The real question I had was whether or not you could continue counting stalls while the offense was walking the disc up the line.

Discussed this with an observer over beers last week. According to her, once the pre-stall from 20 is complete, a defender within 3 meters of where the disc currently is can start counting stalls. Offence maintains the option of walking the disc up or not, but stalls can continue if they decide to bring it up.

What a bizarre coincidence. I was also discussing this exact same situation with an observer over beers last week!

[nyxll]

Does the defender have to be standing over the disc to initiate the count?

If the disc is in the endzone and the offense can bring it up to the line, can the defender initiate the stall count at the line or do they have to stand over the disc?

If the offense picks up the disc and walks it to the line, does the defender have to stop the stall count? Last year, I ran into a situation where the offense picked up the disc in the end zone and walked it to the line but the defender was already at stall 5 (the defender had clearly counted down from 10 and then initiated the stall count). By the time the offense had brought it up to the line, the stall count was at 9. Something didn't seem right about the situation but I haven't read the rulebook since the 4th edition came out so I wasn't sure if the call was legit.

End zone counts are from 20 not 10. They also have to yell 20, 10, 5 so you know they are counting down.