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Aggressive ignorance

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Aggressive ignorance

Postby BBG » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:27 pm

This is more of a philosophy question rather than an actual rules question. Not everybody is a rules maven, and that's fine (although I think that every team should have a 'lawyer' or two). Sometimes people just don't know a rule and make an incorrect call. The problem is when a player makes an incorrect call, then insists that they are correct. Just as an example, let's say that a person 'knows' that the rule is that the line is in, or that you need to have two feet in bounds to make a catch. They know it, they insist they know it, and they're wrong. Hence, agressive ignorance.

The question is, how do you deal with a person like this? Having a copy of the rules handy is always nice, but pointing out where the rule is, and that they are wrong rarely results in an outcome that is good-spirited. Any thoughts?
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Re: Aggressive ignorance

Postby HotSauce » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:55 pm

BBG wrote:pointing out where the rule is, and that they are wrong rarely results in an outcome that is good-spirited. Any thoughts?


I believe you showing the person where the rule is is exactly good-spirited. There are rules to this game and all captains have a copy of the rules. If this player is going to continue playing this game, he/she will have to acknowledge that there are rules and learn the right one(s). By showing this person the correct rule, you are helping to prevent future rule misinterpretations. If the person refuses to listen or be rational, I would first discuss with the other captain and if this doesn't resolve it, report it to the convenor.
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Postby themindset » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:29 pm

I think that, in league play, your best strategy might actually be to give them the call with the caveat of "OK, we will call it that way, but I will show you the rule on the sideline."

I find that this often is very effective, as it immediately eliminates any conflict on the field and also contracts the player to pay attention when you approach them later.

I've found that there is no amount of arguing with someone who "knows they are right" that will convince. But I've used this give-and-explain approach very effectively in the past (usually resulting with smiles and friendly apologies).

This should only be done in league, and lower divs (you guys call them tiers?). If it's a more competitive level, then other players from the player's own team should usually step in and explain that they are being a dorkus malorkus.

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Re: Aggressive ignorance

Postby GregS » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:31 pm

HotSauce wrote:I believe you showing the person where the rule is is exactly good-spirited.

It is, unfortunately, often not seen that way. I think people can feel like you're rubbing it in their face. Many of the times teams I'm on get poor spirit scores, it is precisely because we are calling the game according to the rules, and their wacky interpretations don't agree. Showing them the rules tends to just piss them off more, they make even worse calls, you rightly contest, and things spiral downwards.
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Re: Aggressive ignorance

Postby HotSauce » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:36 am

You raise two good points which TUC will have to address:
GregS wrote:I think people can feel like you're rubbing it in their face.

Teams which do not know the rules nor respect the rules need to face some kind of disciplinary action. I can't imagine any other organized sports league which would allow teams to blatantly continue playing without playing by the rules. I'm not talking about a team which has one or two bad spirited games. Sometimes people have bad games and blow up. But a team which consistently gets low spirit scores and comments about not knowing or playing by the rules needs to know they can be suspended until they fix the problem.
GregS wrote:Many of the times teams I'm on get poor spirit scores, it is precisely because we are calling the game according to the rules, and their wacky interpretations don't agree.

I think teams need to provide justification for spirit scores whether they are a perfect 10, an "average" 8 or 9, or a below average 4. It's not that hard for a captain to type in a sentence or two outlining why the game was good or bad before submitting the spirit score.
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Postby oshai » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:37 am

and I always thought that playing by the rules is never unspirited... but you, Greg, just don't know when to take a foul likea man :P
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Postby BBG » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:11 pm

An update, just to show how frequently this happens:

Playing my game last night, and time is getting short. It's important to note that this was a TCSSC game. The captain of the other team asks how much time we have left, and I told her we're playing until 8:35. She's incredulous because 'TCSSC rules are two 40 minute halves'. Of course, that's wrong, and I tell her the correct rule. She still thinks she's right, so I call time out and go to retrieve my copy of the rules, at which point she gets all snotty and says I can 'Have it my way'. Well no, I'm actually just following the rules.

(BTW, it was a close game, and when the game ended could have been important).

In the end I just took some spirit points off. What else can I do?
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