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When do you start counting stalls?

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When do you start counting stalls?

Postby larrypmac » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:21 pm

Offensive player lays out, makes the catch. Defensive player ready to count stalls. Do you wait until her gets up and establishes a pivot, or start as soon as the catch is made?

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Postby Edk001 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:42 pm

Someone may correct me on this, but I believe in 11th edition, any part of your body can be used as a pivot point (like your butt cheek). Dunno if you're lying flat on the ground after laying out, if your stomach counts as a pivot.

Or why the defender couldn't just wait for the girl on offence to get up off the ground before initiating the stall count (is she thinking this person's gonna make a pass while face down on the ground?).
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Postby discjockey » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:42 pm

As soon as the offensive player has possession of the disc, layout or not. You don't have to wait for the player to get up or establish a pivot.

XIV.A.2 Only the marker (II.K) may initiate or continue a stall count, and may do so anytime a thrower has possession of a disc that is live or in play. However, directly after a turnover or when putting the pull into play the stall may not be initiated before a pivot is established, unless delay of game or pre-stall rules (XIII.A.3, XIII.A.4, XIII.A.5 or VI.B.5.d) apply.
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Postby discjockey » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Edk001 wrote:Or why the defender couldn't just wait for the girl on offence to get up off the ground before initiating the stall count (is she thinking this person's gonna make a pass while face down on the ground?).


Spirited, but not necessary. It is the offensive player's choice to make the layout, and thus end up prone. As for making a pass while face down, some people got skills comin' outta their a$$, let me tell ya.
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Postby GregS » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:13 am

Edk001 wrote:Someone may correct me on this, but I believe in 11th edition, any part of your body can be used as a pivot point (like your butt cheek).

The "pivot spot" is the place on the field at which you establish your pivot. The "pivot" is the part of your body which is in contact with the pivot spot. 11th edition doesn't actually mention a "pivot point" anywhere. It's possible to temporarily lose contact with the pivot spot in order to stand up, without it being a travel (XVI.J.2.a).
Edk001 wrote:Dunno if you're lying flat on the ground after laying out, if your stomach counts as a pivot.

It is only your pivot if you establish it as such, by pivoting on it in a throwing motion (whether an actual throw or a fake). But, as Ian said, a pivot need not be established to start counting stalls.
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Postby Edk001 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:09 am

I stand corrected (on my pivot) :P
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Postby Nigel » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:29 pm

As others mentioned, yes you can start counting before they stand up. Moreover, you can also start counting if someone catches the disc inbounds, and runs out of bounds post-catch. They can't legally throw from there (greatest excepted), and have to set their pivot at the spot where they went out of bounds.
I don't see why 'spirit' comes into it. Them's the rules. The only part where spirit might enter into is if the D lays out on top of the receiver and impedes their ability to stand out, while counting - at which point, O should just call foul.
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Postby gregorylang » Tue May 12, 2009 3:26 pm

start counting as early as possible....

the O lays out, you lay out, as soon as you lose sight of the disc...start counting.

A greatest is actually the greatest explanation for this....as soon as someone catches a disc they COULD throw it, so darn it you should be not just counting but marking their flying buttrass as well.

If you like your coffee with sugar, or your answers with some spirit;

Start counting immediately. Restart as appropriate to the standard established by the Guru of Ultimate Spirit - John Harris - "do what's most fair."

Personally...I count stalls all day long and thanks to Derek Sigurdson - the Guru of Rule Stickling...I always start each set by saying the word "stalling"
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Postby larrypmac » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:07 am

Piggybacking on my own topic, I have a further question on the same subject.

What if the person who catches the disk take his/her momentum steps and ends up either in the end zone or out of bounds. They are required to reurn to the field proper before they can put the disc in play. Does that mean you have to wait until they do so before counting stalls?

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Postby discjockey » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:13 am

larrypmac wrote:Piggybacking on my own topic, I have a further question on the same subject.

What if the person who catches the disk take his/her momentum steps and ends up either in the end zone or out of bounds. They are required to reurn to the field proper before they can put the disc in play. Does that mean you have to wait until they do so before counting stalls?

Larry


No need to wait. Count away...
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Postby josephkrengel » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:21 am

Nigel wrote:I don't see why 'spirit' comes into it. Them's the rules. The only part where spirit might enter into is if the D lays out on top of the receiver and impedes their ability to stand out, while counting - at which point, O should just call foul.


Actually encountered this situation during a recent game; we had a player catch the disc but he hurt himself while landing, and the defending player landed on top of him. While my player was on the ground in the foetal position the opposing player scrambled to his feet quickly, tapped the disc (not necessary) and started counting stalls.

As it turned out he was just winded, but at the time it was clear he wasn't able to make a play; I would call that poor spirit.
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Postby GregS » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:31 pm

I would call that an injury, and play stops immediately. There is no counting stalls while play is stopped. :)
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Postby Blue » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:09 am

True. But if an injury is called, the player who called the injury *must* sub off according to the rules.

That said... most teams will allow someone to 'shake it off' and then resume play if they are being friendly.
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Postby Peeters » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:35 am

Cheeky, but legit: If the injury was caused by the other team (and you can make the case that landing on top of the player caused the injury), then the player doesn't have to leave the field. :)
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Postby josephkrengel » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:34 pm

Spirited, but not necessary.


Spirited play is necessary. I've been thinking about this one a bit (I work from home now...)

You are free to start counting stalls as soon as the possession is achieved if the disk remains in play, but spirit comes into play by determining if the person is actually able to make a throw at that time. If the guy (or girl) is lying on the ground looking around, then by all means start counting; if they're taking a second to make sure that all of their parts are still attached, the spirited decision would be to wait until they are "back in the game"...
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