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Postby Chewbacca » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:29 am

Just wanted to say that I really like the new version of Leaguerunner. It's pretty sweet, so good job there!

One request or enhancement that I think would be a benefit in the future would be to show the team jersey colour beside the team name in the scheduling.

i.e.

Game 123 Team A (White) vs. Team B (Red)

or something like that. Anyway, great job! Really digging the iCal upgrade.
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Re: Feedback

Postby lwswong » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:32 am

+1 on the colour thing. That would be a nice "frill".

I did notice that we can't see spirit scores, or detailed spirit ratings (by category) anymore. Is this on purpose, or just not completed yet?

Awesome job!
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Postby GregS » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:44 am

I've had a number of questions about spirit scores. Here's the thing.

They were initially hidden in Leaguerunner for various reasons, but exposed at some point due to a change made by the Ottawa developer. For the moment, I've gone back to hidden.

The argument against total transparency on spirit is generally that it discourages honesty. Teams have, in the past, given opponents low spirit scores as retaliation for a low spirit score they felt was unjustified earlier in the season, so people don't answer honestly in fear of this. Or people don't want to offend their friends on the other team.

What I'd like is a way to show an average, which doesn't give away any knowledge of scores from specific games. So, a straight average doesn't work, because if you remember what it was before this game and see what it is after, the math is pretty easy to figure out what this game's score was. Averaging in groups of 3, dropping high and low scores, etc. are possibilities.

Not really looking for suggestions here, I think it's something for the Spirit Committee to decide, not the developer.
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Postby GregS » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:51 pm

I like the idea of including the shirt colour in the schedule, but I'm not sure where to put it. I thought of putting a small square of the appropriate colour next to the team name, but there's currently 190 distinct colour names in the database, and many of them are things like "red or white" or "yellow and green" or "topless" or "medium rare" (yes, really), which don't lend themselves well to a graphic representation.

And I've tried to keep things concise so that lines of data normally do fit on a single line, so adding "Black....like the sun, only, not yellow" (yes, really) after the team name really blows that up.

Maybe I'll add a small "shirt" image with hover text.
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Postby GwaiLo » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:04 pm

GregS wrote:... "Black....like the sun, only, not yellow"...


Ha...what type of dbag would put something like that as their colour!?!?! :elephant:
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Postby jlising » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:21 pm

GwaiLo wrote:
GregS wrote:... "Black....like the sun, only, not yellow"...


Ha...what type of dbag would put something like that as their colour!?!?! :elephant:


ROFLMAOOMGWTFBBQFTMFW LOLcano!!!!

hmmm...i dunno...maybe, the BEST. TEAM. EVER!
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Postby muskokajoe » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:11 pm

I notice that the "Show Team History" function is working. Assuming this is new, and I'm not hallucinating again(\more)?, thanks to the person who made it so. :)
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Postby GregS » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:10 am

Yeah, that was about a week ago. I mentioned it on Facebook, but not here. I was going to post about the various new features, but the others already had posts requesting them that I just replied to instead.
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Postby pvet » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:57 am

GregS wrote:I've had a number of questions about spirit scores.
[... snip... ]
What I'd like is a way to show an average, which doesn't give away any knowledge of scores from specific games. So, a straight average doesn't work, because if you remember what it was before this game and see what it is after, the math is pretty easy to figure out what this game's score was. Averaging in groups of 3, dropping high and low scores, etc. are possibilities.

Not really looking for suggestions here, I think it's something for the Spirit Committee to decide, not the developer.

I miss being able to see the spirit breakdown by game and category. It's hard to be able to take anything constructive away from a bad spirit score if you can't see the details. For instance, my Tuesday team has an almost unbroken spirit record of 10s over multiple seasons. Currently we have an orange triangle for this season, and we're not sure why. I'd love to be able to address whatever concern the other team had, but that's not possible unless we know who docked us (granted, there's only been one game this season so we know the answer to that in this specific case) and why they chose to do so.
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Postby rahil_s » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:28 am

If you want a breakdown, email your convenor to find out
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Postby Wartank » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:27 pm

1) re: spirit.
much in the same way i've ranted about the whole "just contest and throw it back" mentality, I fear that giving spirit scores and then not having them be transparent; or, like pvet, not knowing what an incident is about; or maybe even the whole concept of sitting down long after the game and assigning a number without any consultation with the other team... is just not creating the right atmosphere. Back in the day, if I didn't get a chance to speak to the opposing captain after the game, I used to email the other captain personally to let them know if they didn't get a perfect spirit score, and why. I encouraged a conversation to hash out problems that may not have been addressed on the field. Rightfully or wrongly, in my very "high-minded" days, I perceived it as an affront when an opposing captain would dock our team's marks and then scurry away from their computer screen without explanation. Thankfully, I haven't had much cause to do this in recent years, but the point stands -- part of the spirit of ultimate is figuring out your differences on the field, and holding no ill will when you leave it. We are not a police-controlled state -- we are a community.

So what can we do (as a club) to address this?

2) re: shirt colours. why not have a colour picker?
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Postby GregS » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:39 pm

1) I'm getting to it.
2) I'm getting to it... I don't really want to enforce a limited palette on people, I'll likely just build something that handles common colours and goes with gray for the rest.

Some of this is simply real life intruding on my ability to finish everything I want to.
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Postby autnoc » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:25 pm

rahil_s wrote:If you want a breakdown, email your convenor to find out


Are you proposing that the convenors will be fine with being e-mailed after every game in which a team is docked spirit? It seems an awful waste of everyone's time when there's a simple automated solution that worked well in the previous version of Leaguerunner.
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Postby rahil_s » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:45 pm

I think until Greg has some time to get things sorted out, it's okay to at least ask convenors if your are overly concerned about a low spirit rating.
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Postby pvet » Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:07 pm

rahil_s wrote:I think until Greg has some time to get things sorted out, it's okay to at least ask convenors if your are overly concerned about a low spirit rating.

Absolutely agreed. I totally understand Greg's rationale for the existing setup. I just brought this thread back to life because I had that recent example experience that I thought illustrated why it can be good to have spirit breakdowns.

In general, I think Wartank nailed it when he said "I encouraged a conversation to hash out problems that may not have been addressed on the field". I recognize that some games are just not going to be perfect, but I'd like to strive for excellent spirit and getting (and giving) constructive feedback is the best way to make it happen. Non-concrete spirit just doesn't feel constructive or actionable.

Anyhoo, simply food for thought if the Spirit Committee does try to decide on this like Greg has suggested they will/ought to.
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Postby GregS » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:10 pm

GregS wrote:
Wartank wrote:2) re: shirt colours. why not have a colour picker?

2) I'm getting to it... I don't really want to enforce a limited palette on people, I'll likely just build something that handles common colours and goes with gray for the rest.

Done! It even handles a bunch of less-common colours; pretty much everything used by 20 or more teams since we started using Leaguerunner is recognized. It can easily be extended just by me uploading more graphics. If your team has the ? one and you want to know why, ask away (but, look at your team's colour first, the answer may be really obvious). If you don't like the particular colour I've used for something, feel free to suggest a better RGB value. And if you're a captain, remember you can edit your team record to change your colour any time, you're not stuck with whatever you put when you signed up.
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